Built to Work: Episode 2 - Larry Harmon | Harmon Consulting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpCRm1KRBeI

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Welcome to Built to Work the podcast that gets its hands dirty dives into the grit and uncovers the heart of what makes the blue-collar world tick I'm Colin your host and I'm sitting down with the people who keep our world running From those tackling the tough jobs no one else dares to do to the HR professionals working overtime to find the labor force we desperately need Whether you're in the trenches or behind the scenes this podcast is for anyone who values hard work determination and the stories that build the backbone of our workforce So grab your gloves your coffee or your clipboard It's time to get to work Today I'm here with one of the most interesting men in metal that I've met so far 

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named Larry Harmon Larry thank you for taking some time to chat with me today Nice to be here 

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"So Larry and I got to know each other about a year ago and you were doing 

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doing some consulting for another 

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an aluminum company." 

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"And we got the opportunity to sit down a couple times talk about your career talk about your past where you've been and how you really just are an expert in all that you do." I did I think that depends on who you ask first of all the expert part but 

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Yeah You know I have been around quite a bit Yeah Yeah 

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so I kind of want to Larry just walk back a little bit and talk about how did you get into the metals industry How did you kind of get to where you are now Kind of an overview of that 

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it's a very long story but I'll shorten it for you How's that All right That works well So 

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so as I got out of school high school I went to vocational school I didn't go to college 

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turned 

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took machine shop 

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so I was a machinist working with aluminum for an airline company And 

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it worked out really well I enjoyed it and I I learned a lot about aluminum 'cause that's what we focused most of our 

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work with 

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And 

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friend of mine worked at 

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a big aluminum company 

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And we'd worked together in 

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some activities around church and some side work and stuff like that so he asked me "Would you be interested in coming to work for me or at the same place?" 

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And 

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I said "Sure why not?" So I went to school I actually went to school when I was 35 to college Okay And 

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just kind of you know just for business nothing you know not a 4year degree anything like that And 

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turns out that the place I went to work with is 

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was Alcoa 

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And Alcoa was 

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they didn't focus a lot on education which worked out good They focused on results which is what I can do right Absolutely So 

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so because of that 

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I started out in casting I didn't even work with the guy that 

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that got me in over there 

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and I was a late bloomer by Alcoa standards Everybody that had been there right out of school or right out of high school either one and it's just you know they're lifers right Yeah So 

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I didn't start there till I was 38 So 

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but I started in the cast house casting aluminum 

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molten metal 

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cleaning it up taking scrap remelt taking molten metal 

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from the 

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refi- 

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reduction which is the pot rooms Okay And casting it into ingots and ingots 

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was can sheet So I learned so much there and then I went to the pot rooms 

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which we convert the ore dust into molten metal right And while I was there I got to do Man I've been I've been through the entire facility of the process of aluminum 

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I've got to visit mines so 

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I went to 

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Saudi Arabia for 5 almost 5 years and 

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I got to you know hone my trade kind of So I was manager over there worked out really well come back started consulting Okay and that's what I've been doing ever since And so 

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the the place you're talking about was 

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the scrap remelt and you know it's part of the business 

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the hardest part was keeping employees 

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We had the turnover where when I first got there as the plant manager we was I think we was about a 90% turnover rate That's very high And you you It's so hard to run a business that way No that's that's terrible Yeah Yeah It's rough So Yeah That that constant turnover it it kills you and it loses you lose your institutional knowledge you lose efficiency you're constantly retraining That's- Absolutely that's brutal on a company You you can't get ahead You can maintain and 

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so you know when they told us about your the company that you have we were like "Now wait a minute What They're gonna come in here and do what?" And they I tell you what to to be you know to be honest with you those guys that you that you brought to the table they came to work every day They didn't complain They worked qu- they worked safe They did exactly They probably did twice the work that they that we got out of everybody else 

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if it wasn't for that 

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premier being there at the facility we would have closed that facility There's no doubt in my mind Because we couldn't keep the people Yeah We couldn't get the work done You know it's based on work fl- 

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flow and you know if you don't have it you know you're not obviously not making money So 

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it was I'd never seen that 

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till I came back from overseas 

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And then when I came back 

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even even when I came back I started going back over there as a consultant in back over in the Middle East- Yeah and hitting all those the the refineries and the smelt- the smelters over there And 

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they didn't have it there because they were importing 

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workforce Gotcha Gotcha So they were doing the same thing we're doing here We're trying to get people to come to work you know Right And if 

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you can't get your locals to do it- what are you gonna do You know Yeah you gotta find you gotta find somebody So yeah no- Exactly I mean I appreciate I appreciate your kind words about our guys I mean we are you know we're very proud of our guys and very thankful for for what they do and they work super hard And I've gotten to know a few of them here 

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that are out there doing that 

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they do they do some they do some hard work 

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They do great work yeah And and we're Yeah we we love 'em We're very appreciative of 'em so 

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when you were in your time at Alcoa it I mean it seems like you've seen the whole and been in the whole aluminum process from raw ore to finished product then back through the scrap side- Yes back into the ingots where it then goes to the finished product again So you've kinda- Absolutely you've kinda seen the whole the whole gambit of it I have I've been very fortunate 

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Yeah Not ev- not everybody gets to do that you know in their careers A lot of people you know you get stuck in one 1 you know specialty You know sometimes if you're in a cast house you're in a cast house your entire life 

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Or if you're in a if you're in a re- 

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refinery even you're in the refinery your whole li- You know I've got to 

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I'm very fortunate very blessed that I've got to go from the 

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from the mines 

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even all the way through the 

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the rolling mill for the can sheet 

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So it's it's been- Yeah I've been very fortunate Was there any of those places that you walked into any of those refineries or the cast houses or anything like that you know for the first time or even you know even after you'd been there for a while where you walked into it and you're just like man this is this is really cool This is it This is the neat thing to see Have you have you had any of those moments where there was something that just kinda like it was cool every time 

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not really Very few No Okay V- very few Wh- when we got the 

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wh- when we went to Saudi we went over there and started the modern project We got it running and got it going and we had a You know we had people from 14 different countries Oh wow You know that was 

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a culture shock from a you know poor guy from Tennessee right So 

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Uh-huh but we went over there and it made we made it happen made it work Now you have a lot of gratitude 

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you know gratification and then you have that p- sense of pride But to walk in a place 

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very Let me see You know that's a tough question Colin I don't think I've ever walked in a place and it run like it's supposed to as a consultant I wouldn't be there probably right That's true You kinda come in when everything's going sideways right Yeah yeah 

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I'm generally I guess I'm known for fixing things you know- 

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getting it running making it better and 

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Okay then leaving But 

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You don't get to see all the glory Right So 

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you know I don't get the I don't get to bask in all the all the good stuff Yeah But 

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if it's not challenging it's I get bored so Yeah It works out- No I I completely understand that Yeah You know I know when I w- I was just getting into this industry you know going the first time and seeing like an auto shredder right You see- 

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a car just go in and the you know crane loads it and then it comes out and it's all in chunks you know smaller than a football and it's like "That was"- Yeah and separated Yeah "That was quick." Right I I Th- that sort of stuff impresses me And the first time we met at that facility as well just you know being around you know furnaces and molten metal and everything like that I was like "Yeah this is it's hard work but it's cool and it's neat to see-" I tell you " neat to see the process." Because you know it's not every day you get to walk around You know what I mean For for people in the industry it's it's common but most people don't get to be around molten al- molten aluminum molten steel at any point in their careers or their life That's very true Yeah Yeah You know once you get that in your blood too you can't get it out Yeah You know some people are made for that 

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you know the guys who who come in "Oh it's hot," you know "Oh it's miserable," you know they're not they're not the aluminum guys that we need right You know we need the guys who come in and you know have a little bit of little bit of attitude got that- 

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chest pumped out you know a little bit- Yeah you know not too cocky or that they're You know they have to be a team player but at the same time they have to be confident They can't be afraid Yeah And if 

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You have to respect it but you don't have to be afraid of it It's 

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So that's the guys that we're looking for and you you just happen to provide us You know 

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nobody bats a thousand right No But you guys the guys that you gave us up in 

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up at the 

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the melting facility that I was at I'm You know I'm guessing we hit you guys hit about 98% That's good There's very few people that you brought in- that 

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didn't like it And you know if you don't like it it's not gonna work Yeah And and we respect that too So 

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But the guys that you brought in you know they come in And I say guys Girls too I'll tell you what We we've still got people there and the most appreciated person up there we got we got a lady that drives a forklift She's great at it 

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And she is a rock star and everybody loves her and they say "No matter what we want her." Like Absolutely You know They're like "Hey We'll we'll give you a pay bump to stay 'cause you are you are you're the player Yeah You know it it's good to see that too It's good to see somebody come in with an idea like this and say "You know what We got you." Yeah It it's good to have that guy behind you you know 

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the premier guys behind you saying "Okay we got it." 

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"No worries." We'll make it happen "We'll make this work." Yeah "We'll make it happen If you need us to work a little bit extra we'll work a little bit extra." You know whatever it takes to get the job done they'll do that Yeah And 

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you know I hate to say it but a lot of people that 

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who are locals in in the areas don't really have that attitude 

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Yeah So- A lot of these facilities tend to be in in some of these you know smaller rural towns and stuff like that so 

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maybe they don't even have the the ability to fully staff some of these large facilities just 'cause there's not the volume of people and you know kind of once you burn through a certain percentage of the population that are you know interested in this type of hard work 

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Sure you're gonna start running out of people that'll do the job So Well we generally 

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we w- There's a 60-mile rule you know that we will- 

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generally say "Okay Who's within 60 miles that we can recruit?" 

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You know we're doing the same thing We have a couple I have another couple projects working right now that 

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that are new newer to the communities that they're in And 

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there's a 60-mile radius right there Yeah You know I don't know if we can staff our you know staff what we need within that 60-mile radius And you know you have to pay a lot of money to get people to move out of their homes Yeah Out of their hometowns and where they're comfortable with their wife's work or husbands work there you know They don't It's hard to just pick up and leave It is 

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It is I mean I've I've done that for a job I mean you've done it You moved to Saudi Arabia for a while 

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I've moved across states state lines before 

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and one thing we do to solve that problem though is and it's kind of It's built into you know the cost of what we do is we'll we'll rent long-term housing for our guys Right We'll rent houses We'll rent apartments Right It's kind of And so it's like "Hey Okay well they're 90 minutes away from where they live so Monday through Friday they'll they'll be up here and then they'll go back home on the weekends." So You know when I heard you did that I actually went and looked at it and everything 'cause I It was it was almost something that I'd I never I'd never even heard of that 

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And you guys doing that was outstanding I mean these you know You giving them a chance to make something of their lives right And they're You upgraded them and what they're doing And for the for the factories you know keep the doors open Yep Hey it's a win-win all the way around and that's what it's all about 

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Absolutely I agree Yeah So let's talk about your consulting work that you do now 

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So now you're a consultant you're a fixer so you are going into mainly aluminum plants I'm assuming at this point Only aluminum plants Only aluminum Yeah you don't want to touch any of that that ferrous stuff no Well I don't know anything else you know You gotta be good at something right Exactly Hey hey You gotta you gotta niche down So you're going in and and you're f- You're consulting right 

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A lot of times you're going to these facilities and there's there's issues Is that is that correct what you're working on Mostly Yeah That's that's when I get calls is when there's a problem 

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And you know when you go consulting you know I don't just go in and make a list 

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Right I go in and you know I'm actually involved I don't just make a list I bring solutions And sometimes I will stay there till we implement the solutions and get it back on track 

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I was in a in a 

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smelter a couple different summers extended times I just went to help and then I ended up almost in a position you know- that 

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you know that we And and we didn't leave until it was running like it should be And you know that's that to me is a is a a professional consultant instead of the guy who comes in Anybody can come in and make a list 

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You know Have the guts to have the guts to 

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to implement it and make it happen Yeah You know help with the solution and help get there so Yeah 

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And when you're working to implement those solutions you're really fighting an uphill battle 'cause you got to get people to buy into the changes right There's probably some financial investment too "Hey you got to get new equipment You got to get better people." Like what that is you got to change processes around And then- Yeah and you don't make those decisions Yeah Yeah A- But then you don't have the authority as the consultant to write the check and make those decisions so you've got to say "Hey You're paying me Here's my advice I suggest you implement it," and then you have to go through and w- work through that implementation process if they buy off on The 

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the hard part the hardest part of it really to me is when you see something that needs to be done- 

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and you say "Guys this is what you need to do." And they won't do it It's very It drives you crazy because you know that's what they need to do You know that's gonna work And you know- I don't I don't I'm not responsible for their budget right Yes And I don't answer to their bosses and bosses and board of directors and 

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you know that's that's their that's their decision now you know 

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and then we deal with it you know no hard feelings which is the way we'll go 

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Yeah no totally understand how that's sometimes that's just part of it so When you're going into these facilities I'm sure you see a whole bunch of different stuff but do you tend to 

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with these these things that are broken do you is it more is it equipment Is it processes Is it people Is it a lack 

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is it like a a knowledge Like where do you see these you know recurring issues coming up It's all the above All of it Okay All the above yeah 'cause 

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you know if it's an old facility they don't want to spend the money to catch up 'cause- 

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then you then you're almost building a new facility Yeah Then you have to get everything up to code you know so there's a lot of a lo- lot goes into the equipment part of it 

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And then the 

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obviously the process The process is the process You don't you don't you know change a different way that you do things- Yeah you know to make to turn molten metal from you know from ore dust to molten There's 

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one process to do that right And sometimes we try to take shortcuts or we're not disciplined Discipline is a 

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is a big issue in the aluminum industry no matter what section no matter what no matter what department you're in or what process you're managing You have to have your systems and your processes right Absolutely And then you know the last 5 or 6 facilities I've been in the people part is getting worse because you- Yeah have new people training new people you know You can't- Yeah y- y- you said it earlier your your institutional knowledge and your experience you can't just go get that Mm-mm no you can't You know if you could I wouldn't have a job right So you know you've got- Yeah you've got you know there's only one way to get it and 

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you know and that's get in there and get with it Yeah And stay with it till you learn it right And you have to be disciplined to the processes and that's very hard very hard to do whenever 

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you don't really know the processes you know So you s- Yeah you have to yeah so you simplify it and 

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do the best you can to teach and train coach and train in a 

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in a step by step level 

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process but it's you know it's not easy It's not easy to do It's it's not easy yeah You know but 

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Yeah for sure We 

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But the people you know they have turnovers everywhere we go not 90% of course but there's- 

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so much turnover I've seen people come into a smelter after they've taken the tour just to see where they'd be working and quit right there I mean- Didn't even make it through the first hour They didn't even make it till lunch you know So so there's there's you know that's a big- There's a- There's a people component to it for sure 

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and then and you know we we understand that you bring in somebody like us like hey we might be a few bucks 

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per hour on 

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more expensive face value than somebody else But to have that continuity of employees and have that work consistently getting done and not having to worry about you know the turnover the training and all that sort of stuff it it it does pay for itself with productivity gains down the road right Or even immediately right As soon as you get that full week of production in that was a whole lot better than having your new employees walk out on the tour There there's no doubt that it's valuable It's value added Even if it is 

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so what's it a little more expensive by by the dollar by the hour But in the long run you're making more money Because you can't if you're not making the product if you're not having the flow if you're not 

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if your production's not there you're not gonna have anything anyway So it's- Yeah very important I mean you know and it is worth it We've done the math 

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We have actually done the math my partner and I we've actually done the math and said "You know it's cheaper in the long run It's more more effective more efficient or you know it just makes more business sense to have a premier on site." 

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You know and the people some people you know they will see just the number 

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what we pay an hour and say "Oh my goodness we can't do that." Well bring me somebody who'll work it You know Can't do it Can't do it That's right yeah And it works out 

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you know it it's just a you know it's it's a business Your business model is what makes it work Yeah And that that you know that flows into the 

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to the business owners I mean it's it's got to be part of it Yeah absolutely Absolutely So you've been in the aluminum industry now for for a few years maybe a couple decades at this point now Yeah 

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what are what are some of the biggest changes you've seen Has there been a big technology shift that you've seen Has there been a process shift Like what are some what's a what's a big change that you've seen over that timeframe Well you know everybody wants to be technical savvy right 

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Everybody wants to make improvements and everybody you know improvements are not always good but 

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sometimes if you can take human error out obviously that's going to help you in the long run right 

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but you don't change the process you know You can you can automate some things which we've done you know 

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You know when we put in a p- in a facility over in Modern man we didn't we didn't even touch the metal We got it ready with the machines got it ready but 

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after you got it in the furnaces you never touched it Never touched it It was amazing That's awesome No it's it was amazing But you're talking about state of the art and money that an existing facility doesn't have the the ability to upgrade to right 

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So the the technology is still limited It it's still limited even though w- it's made great strides You know you see guys down there with a shovel loading standard ingots whereas you got a robot stacker that'll do that and nobody hurts their back 

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You know that makes sense Yeah That's worth the money because of safety issues Yeah But there again not everybody can just afford to go say "Okay let's write a check for one of those." Yeah Right so- A couple million dollars or more for whatever that robot stacker costs Exactly Yeah Yeah Sure Yeah I mean you know I know 

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this one company's probably spent over a billion dollars trying to develop a different type of anode that lasts longer you know It's been working they've been working on it for 25 years It's still not there you know but they're not gonna give up 'til they get it And once they get it it'd be great but- 

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you know I I think I think the biggest issue to me in my time is the younger generation They don't w- they don't have that work ethic 

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My dad I'll give you an example My dad's 84 years old He works 40 hours a week 84 work 40 hours a week He doesn't miss work He's never late and he works when he's there He does his job when he's there He's employee of the month over You know and we- That's awesome You're talking about a facility that has I don't know 50 people Uh-huh And he's you know they're young you know their turnovers you know I don't know what the turnover is but 

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you know you see different people you know when I go by there and see them But it's a 

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it's a different generation 

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Right We've spoiled our kids We have spoiled them rotten You know we went in and had- Too many participation trophies Yes Don't get me started on participa- participation trophies 'cause I'm gonna break them all with a hammer yeah that's part of it I mean you know- Yeah Don't keep score when they're little You know keep score You got to know who wins You got to win or lose Winners and losers in life Part of it right Yeah Come on But they you know th- it's just a different culture that we're dealing with 

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And 

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when I when I left Alcoa the average age Well when I left the cast house the average age in there was over 50 You know those guys didn't work that hard but they worked smart and they were smooth right Best workforce Man you wouldn't believe it And the you know you get the younger guys coming in they're working 10 times harder and getting less done or they're not working at all Not working at all Yeah absolutely Yeah and one of the worst things you can do when you're trying to manage this place is have people not show up 'cause you've got your plan you've got your you know you've got your 

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production number that you've got to hit so much a day and you've got a plan to get there Nobody shows up Somebody doesn't show up and then- 

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you know there goes your plan there goes your numbers there goes your money It's something know- Yeah well this is where it's- I think that's the big- This is where people that that aren't in it don't understand that if the people don't show up you can't make the product If you can't make the product you can't make a profit If you can't make a profit the company goes out of business the jobs are not there Then everybody complains that there's no jobs but they didn't show up to the job when they had the opportunity to and it's this circular spiral to an extent right This domino effect right It's a downward spiral Yeah And it it's it's just the domino effect 'cause somebody started it Once once it's started you can't stop it 

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Right So for that day you're you're running around trying to figure out how you want to do this better trying to call somebody in from over you know for overtime that that wasn't planning on being there Might have stayed out- Yeah too late He's not going to come in or she's not going to come in and be as productive 'cause preparation for for the day starts the night before 

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Right So they're not prepared to come in So you know it's there's a lot of things that that's that's the downflow from just I think I'll just not show up today Yeah Yeah please show up to work when you're supposed to That's all it is Show up when you Just show up Sure Just do the right thing I don't know how that's easy That's easy So well Larry I appreciate 

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I appreciate you chatting with me and telling me about your experiences in the aluminum industry over the last couple decades 

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you've obviously got a great wealth of knowledge and 

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I always appreciate it when you share it with me So thank you for your time It's always good to talk to you Collin Take care All right Talk to you later